Friday, July 5, 2013

ADX Developer Rant - The Community Hub

ADX Developer Rant. Aaron Graham of AWG Simulations has forwarded AirDailyX an interesting self written rant/article titled "The Community Hub". Definitely worth a read, check it out inside.

Over the years the community has been a friendly one, open and willing to help. It has also been quite diversified with several different forums being active however in the last few years that has changed. Today we have one primary hub, with one set of rules and some favourites who getting ‘extras’.

It is great to see AirDailyX growing and evolving into a hub, especially with its new website and upcoming forum! However, there are some concerns which I and quite a few other simmers share in common; yesterday (4th July) was a perfect example of that. We had quite a large number of trolls and other low-life losers insult and mock one of the best known development teams in our community with the sad end result being, the preview was removed which I and many others did not get to see. It is unfortunate that our community is heading in the wrong directions.

I believe we need to speak up now and protest against the change. We need to weed out all the trolls and spoilt brats before it is too late. Action must be taken now, hence why I support Mr. Allensworth’s iron fist ruling on his forums when it comes to these immature whinge babies. But does that mean ADX should do the same on their upcoming forums? No, of course not! The forums which ADX will host can provide an alternate solution, but with that comes problems. Many banned AVSIM users may simply rush over to the ADX forums and cause continued disruption and chaos.  That must not be allowed to happen, at any cost.

We already see a lot of trolling going on at the ADX blog, though most of it has been halted since the deletion of anonymous comments. I believe the ADX forum must show the entire community an alternative way of running a forum community. It must be open, friendly and transparent. It must not let advertisers get benefits or allow developers who setup commercial support forums get overpowering admin rights to the entire forum, or allow them to have a say in the forum’s future. The forum must have a set of stringent community guidelines that all must follow. If we all follow them we could be the start of a revolution in our small and rapidly decreasing community. We could go back to the old era of being helpful and friendly instead of trying to boost our self-ego.

I never want the new ADX community to become ‘the’ place to discuss everything related to flight simulation. That gives a monopoly and they are dangerous. If that happens there is the fear that AirDailyX will lose its grass roots and begin to take advantage of their position. I want ADX to grow and be a healthy community but there must be alternatives unlike today where AVSIM is king. We must have several hubs to ensure no one community exploits its position.

I am looking forward to the new AirDailyX forum and website as much as you guys but we must remember our founding principles and not feel that we can say anything and hide behind an IP address. Please keep it friendly and supportive.:)

Written by Aaron Graham of AWG Simulations


Refugee said...

I hope the opposite. I hope all the hardcore Avsim users stay put and the banned ones come here. They're not the trolls, they just didn't drink the Kool Aid at Avsim.

And can we get rants from developers that actually release products please?

Aaron Graham said...

Erm...we have released 8 products and we have a high end CRJ-200 in-development along with a free CL-605.

Todd said...

Seems like the 'hardcore' users are the biggest whiners of the bunch...turned me off totally from ever even looking at an FMC.

Bart said...

No worries Aaron, there are always a group that think if you sell them a 40 dollar product, you become their bitch. With the "New" faceless generation, this is what get. Self involved TOSSERs who use every outlet they can to crap on everything because
they CANNOT do anything themselves.
Aaron, just keep doing your thing, the product will sell itself.

AutoRotationer said...

Graham, the people you refer to (large number of trolls and other low-life losers) aren't part of any community here.

I have a very simple gauge for who could be seen as part of the flightsim community - me being comfortable sharing a beer with that person at a community event. If they don't pass that criterium, then they don't qualify.

madpuppy said...

Unfortunately sir, in much of your post you're no better than the trolls that cause you so much trouble. Honestly, quit making excuses and--either as a single company, or as a formed collective, get yourself some public/media relations help. Frankly, you're making a mess of it.

The problem remains that, at the end of the day, you expect members of the public to buy your product. The trolls don't, and therein they have the upper hand. The onus is on the developer to handle the situation with dignity and grace--and NEVER stoop to the level of discourse you've used. Doing otherwise is at your peril.

People have a right--whatever their level of education and/or ability--and yes, even mood--to say whatever they like about a product. That is of course as long as the comment is on point, meaning it actually addresses your product, and is not abusive. Unfortunately, I get the sense that some developers feel any criticism to be abusive.

If a comment is 'AWG sucks!' you have a choice--you can inquire to see if there's a legitimate complaint, or you can ignore it as being ignorant and irrelevant. Your choice. To come along as you have risks alienating more reasonable customers in an already shrinking market. That's of course also your choice.

The reality is that the buying public has, quite often, been mislead--and even cheated--by developers that promise and don't deliver, don't respond to legitimate concerns, disappear, deliver non-functioning software. I hope you don't intend to deny the above. Captain Sim comes to mind, as does Wilco--and Digital Aviation to mention just 3. To be fair, the above have also delivered stuff that did, or did eventually, work. But you get my point.

Outside the Flight1 wrapper system there are few avenues of redress or refund. It's not surprising then, that folks are nervous and even cranky. And while the developer goes to considerable lengths to impress upon the public that they have feelings, that they alone 'do something about this hobby' they completely miss the point that the guy buying your stuff has feelings too, and that there isn't a tree growing money in his backyard.

Rather than try to make enemies of potential customers, why not treat even the nasty ones with kindness--and see if maybe they don't have something to offer?

Why not think first, 'what can I do to make it better?' Everyone does that, and the hobby's in good shape. Besides, controlling internet discussion forums rarely works out well in the end.

ALX WNT said...

I agree with AWG dude at some points as someone who supports the forum of ADX.

First of all, he's right about alternatives. Having an alternative flight sim forum will improve both places when it comes to administration. Maybe AVSIM will be more careful about users and wont consider each individual as troll like NSA considers each citizen as potential threat.

Second, the main purpose of ADX is news and this can create a concensus among users and developers, also can create a neutral ground for discussions and ideas for developers.

Devs who dont want to deal with forum idea can work together with ADX to get opinions or 'most wanted' product via ADX's infrastructure.

As a website who need advertisements to survive, well that might be problem with developers which hates critics, negative or positive.

I however, disagree on one point, i dont think ex-AVSIM trolls will seek ADX forum and think it as troll-haven.

You give one or two chances to member to understand his opinion clearly, if he's a troll he'll repeat same attitude and result is simple; ban. If it's not enough ban his IP range, if it's not enough, nuke his country from orbit, it solves believe me.

Yes, there are couple of trolls i encountered in ADX but i think some of them were just sarcastic, drunk dudes from Ireland or Scotland.

Oi, where's my bloody ale ?!

Wilton said...

"We had quite a large number of trolls and other low-life losers insult and mock one of the best known development teams in our community with the sad end result being, the preview was removed which I and many others did not get to see."

What was previewed? I guess I missed it too.

DAndre Newman said...

If you are referring to that comic, it contained trademark material. So for that main reason, we will never post it again. Sorry bud. Besides that, many just didn't understand it anyway. So that's it.

Aaron Graham said...

I was referring to 2 things;
1) the comic
2) the PMDG 777 preview over at AVSIM and on Facebook (since republished, I think.)

Nick said...

I agree with much of what Aaron says. It would seem that there are quite a few people around who given a keyboard and the anonymity of the Internet decide to act like utter tossers.

This behaviour is not just limited to the flight simulation community, it's pretty much all over the Internet.

HenryS said...


Route Clearance said...

ADX is getting a forum? I need to come here more often.

Tom said...

Completely agree!

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