P3D. The MilViz 737 is finally here! I have been spending the entire afternoon with this bird and I must say that Military Visualizations have done an outstanding job! This gem was well worth the wait! Great exterior visuals, impressive interior visuals, and a fully operational flight-deck. I had so much fun in fact, I snapped nearly 80 shots in this post just to show you all just how damn good it looks and handles! So come along with me as we fly from Annecy to Friedrichshafen with FTXGlobal as the foundation! Let's go!
Attention: Service pack (1.1) has been released! To get it, you must log into your account on the MilViz support forum.
So as the loud aircraft got closer, it was clear, that's a 737! But what the heck is it doing landing at this little airport?
What the heck? MilViz? The men approached me and said: "You D'Andre?" I said... "Uh... no." To which he replied, "You really don't want to lie to us sir."
The second man took out a large manual with a contract. "You need to sign for the aircraft sir."
Completely dumbfounded, I asked what this was all about. I was told that my security clearance was higher than theirs and that's all they knew. They handed me the manual and said the following: "R.T.F.M. before you attempt to fly it sir." They promptly left the airfield, got into a waiting black SUV in the parking lot and were gone.
Still looking dazed and confused, I also realized my friend had left too. Staring back at the aircraft, I thought 'screw it' and climbed aboard.
Once inside, I found I was immediately and thoroughly impressed with the flight deck detail, modeling, and gauges. I whipped out my Nikon SLR and started taking shots!
Afterward, I headed back outside the aircraft to look around a bit closer at the external details.
I waited a few more hours till noon, and decided to take her up. I just couldn't wait any longer. Looking at that fat manual on the FO's seat and remembering what the MilViz guy told me, I tossed the manual into the cabin and began the start-up procedure.
Engines running and time to taxi! This is merely a FirstLook... a first impression if you will... So obviously, i'm skipping steps. I wan't to get a feel for the old girl. I'll go looking for that manual later...
Now on the runway, I pushed the throttles to 40% with the parking brake engaged. Once stabilized, I then pushed the engines to 100%, disengaged the break and felt the old Pratt & Whitney's scream as I was pushed into my seat and the 737 shot forward like a rocket.
In seconds, she was airborne!
Loud and leaving a trail of dirty exhaust. This is how it should be!
Now at cruise, I take more time to get similar with the old girl. She kicks Captain Sim's ass! No doubt. Another thing I noticed was my framerates. At an average of 25fps back at Annecy and now she is at 45fps in cruise. Let's do some maneuvers!
She handles very realistically!
So after screwing around for a couple hours, I decided to head to my new destination.
Good girl! Easy does it...
Dirty girl though...
Now realizing I am hungry, those MilViz guys had no food on-board for me. So I head out for some bratwurst and beer (Stella) while I wait for the Sun to disappear.
Now dark, I return to the aircraft to check out the night lighting. Here you will really want to RTFM! There are several light switches with several personalisable options to get the sexy mood lighting set just the way you like it. But there are many other animated features I discovered during cruise. I will not get into all this here as I am sure you will have fun discovering the flight-deck yourself.
Still looking dazed and confused, I also realized my friend had left too. Staring back at the aircraft, I thought 'screw it' and climbed aboard.
Now dark, I return to the aircraft to check out the night lighting. Here you will really want to RTFM! There are several light switches with several personalisable options to get the sexy mood lighting set just the way you like it. But there are many other animated features I discovered during cruise. I will not get into all this here as I am sure you will have fun discovering the flight-deck yourself.
So after a few more hours screwing around, I decided to call the number on the contract to let the MilViz guys know I was done. A man answered:
"MilViz, this is Colin."
"Hey Colin, D'Andre from ADX here. Just finished up with the 737 your guys dropped off. What should I do with it?"
"Well that depends D'Andre, how did you like it?"
"Oh I freaking LOVE IT man! You guys did an outstanding job! I really think MilViz is the next big thing in flight simulation commercial aircraft development. Congrats on the release! it's been a long wait!"
"Yes it has" said Colin. "We are very proud of it. We are sure your ADX readers will enjoy it too."
"So, what do you want me to do with this thing"
"Well D'Andre, why don't you go ahead and keep it."
"Really? Wow! Thanks Colin!! But...uh wait, I can't afford the fuel..."
"We'll that's your problem now isn't it?"
*CLICK*
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57 comments:
Cool pics and preview, looks like a lot of fun!
Very cool :)
Regards, Diego
That's how a preview should be done, right on ADX !!! What a ride in that old birdy LOLOL... ;-)
kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
Please..... i dislike to see after Dom back of it´s "vacancy" a RIP note of D´andre....
Very funny tale.. D´andre. But... question.... how about the land, how ft/min... where is your "Canon" SS?
King regards from Brazil!!
That instrument panel looks like crap in a good kind of way ;)
The aircraft looks good, but the MCP is wrong :/
I spent an hour with it and sent in a refund request to Flight1. The visuals are good, the sounds are good, but there's too much wrong on the systems front and random WTF retardedness (like the goofy military-esque chimes with the Master Caution and the 737NG autopilot disconnect sound that the SP-77 does NOT have) to be worth $50. I realize it (probably) isn't geared towards being Majestic Q400 or PMDG 737NG level, but they advertise realistic startup/shutdown and realistic systems, and there's nothing realistic about it. That default instantaneous engine start just kills me. At the end of the day, it lags behind the Captain Sim 737 visual model, but is slightly ahead on flight model and instrumentation, so $29 would be a fair price, not $50.
why does it look wrong the MCP this is the 177 there is another the (original of this plane) in fact im happy they given us a option to fly it whit a newr MCP as well as the FMS.. they given the purchaser a option not many does, so you find a way you like and fly it that way it gives a wider costumer range... as if you like the old school fair go ahead whit the old MCP and fly whit out FMS..
The MCP has some funktions that might be different as 1 button selects GPS or FMS.. but thats fair some where they need to place the selection and integrate it in the mcp it self is nice as then you clearly se what is active..
so i mean they did a grate job on that to please all
cool story bro
Outstanding tale D'Andre! Original approach to an FSX addon review! Please keep it up.
I'm very curious to see how much ass kikin' the Milviz crew did on CS ;)
Congrats and thank you!
I want to support these guys...but $50? That price raises expectations pretty high, as one guy has said here.
From what I have read, the pricing should be at the Carenado level.
A lot of those bugs that slipped through the testing are being fixed. The difference here is that unlike Captain Sim Milviz doesnt abandon projects and leave them incomplete or messed up. Things get fixed quickly.
I hear my Credit Card calling
well if you pre purchesed it you could have got it to the Carenado price, for one i was luck but it´s a risk as you dident surely know what you would get, as info was limited.. when that said the price of 50 USD i dont know if you compair to other projects out there the price starts to be more normal you se the flight1 B200 do you mean that is worth 60 USD i dont but i se in the industy here in the past months the prices is getting up for airports as well.. so compaired to that the price level goes up.. then i could start argumen about it´s a hobby and starts to get expensive if you compair to games whit DLC this is over that level by each thing you buy.. but the fact is we are a little comunity sadly compaired to the market of games where they sell more. but i always said the few cant pay for 2 just to get 1 copy as there is a smaller sale..
As just even good old Konfuzius used to say :
"You should nevel buy a new ailclaft until at least SP1 is out !", and especialy on this priceing, I expect he is right on that.
Is the FMS functaining?
50 Bugs? Sorry Thats to much. 30$ and i would buy this. Its right that the prices vor our AddOns are rised high up BUT its the same for the piracy, in the last time products came 1 day after release on share and torrent site´s. Special for ORBX who i feel very sorry for this. Same for Aerosoft Twin Otter. Very sad, i think people will not have so much money or its not worth for them.
To those who say this should have Carenado-level pricing, you are absolutely wrong.
I would hate for the readers of ADX to get the wrong impression by those who haven't even purchased or flown the bird (or those not willing to give it enough time or flights to experience all that is included).
I may be wrong, but Carenado's larger aircraft retail for $39.99 USD. For $10.00 more you are getting a heck of a lot more than the standard Carenado release.
Five important reasons why it's not a Carenado-level release:
1. Manuals, 5 or more including a FCOM.
2. Details, details, details not just textures.
3. Almost every single switch in the cockpit is functional.
4. External Module for configuring passenger/cargo variants, weights and MCP type.
5. It's Milviz, which means it will be patched and upgraded as needed until it's right. It won't get one SP and then left to rot and fester on the virtual shelves of the internet while the community shares fixes via community forums like the Carenado birds.
I know its a new MCP etc etc, but it does not look like the real one :/
Philip,
**I hit the limit for characters so I'll split this over 2 comments**
1) Boeing FCOM's are a dime a dozen on a Google search for free, not a justification of paying $50. Especially not when that manual does you no good to use this airplane (which doesn't work properly).
2) Details are nice, but I'd rather have an airplane that does the basics correctly first (like start the engines) before getting textured cargo pallet-like details, modeled toilet or retracting beacon. But on the same point, a lot of the 'details' and equipment configuration they've included were never ever fitted to a 737-200 basic, even aftermarket, only the Advanced. And what's up with the 707 glare-shield padding??
3) Almost every single switch is functional, but MAYBE 15% actually do what they're supposed to do. There's a lot of fictional delusion in how things are "supposed" to work and artistic 'liberties' about how they want it to work because they either can't make it do what it's supposed to, don't have a clue what it's supposed to do, or don't want to. That right there knocks it out of the $50 arena. Captain Sim's model is exactly the same in this area, and looks better at the $29 price point. I own that one too, and unfortunately can't get a refund for it like I can (and have) with the MilViz.
Con't...
Con't...
5) This is (was) my first MilViz purchase, and frankly, I'm not at all impressed. For a group that's so cocky, I was expecting a sterling product at release. It couldn't be further from it. It's the first purchase I've ever had to return via the Flight 1 30 day refund as well. Their specialty is military equipment, and who knows how accurate THAT really is because getting a hold of manuals and material for military level aircraft is a little harder. On the patch front, the Wilco 737-3/4/500 had a plethora of patches after release too (like 5 or 6, Release E or F or something), none of which made it fly or operate properly. The fact that MilViz patches and patches doesn't mean it'll be patched right, and given how wrong it is now, I don't think they have a clue anyway.
None of those points make it worth $50 when there are better aircraft available at slightly higher and lower price points. Even the Coolsky DC-9, while cartoon-ish looking, is waaaay ahead of this plane in most areas except for sounds at the same price point. And it has a LOT more bells and whistles. I also don't need to spend a month with it to know if it's a keeper or a scrapper. If you know the airplane, you'll know right away. I was lucky enough to do my initial Dispatch license systems and performance course on the 737-200 and 727-200, so I have a soft spot for the two and this product does not do the airplane the justice it deserves.
Pity, this could have been really good. They should have taken up my offer for material and engineering data, they'd have been much further ahead. Ultimately, I think they need to get a hold of beta testers who have a clue. It's clear that no one on their team has any idea how even basic systems work on (any) aircraft. The most blatantly obvious being, they want you to CLOSE the isolation valve to do an engine start. Closing the isolation valve on a 737 isolates and blocks bleed air flow from the APU or left engine to the right engine/pack. With that valve closed, there's no way APU bleed air (from the left manifold) can supply air to the right engine for engine start. They've got it ass backwards, and for something that's been in development for a year or two, its a painfully obvious failure on their part. How did not one single person catch that??
Sorry, at any rate, it's not worth $50, and we still don't have a viable 737-200 to work with in FSX. It's a poor to average $29 entertainment level product like Captain Sim, only of any real good to people looking for eye candy. Giving credit where credit is due, the visual model (while inferior to CaptainSim) is good, and the hand flying qualities are better than Captain Sim. The gravel kit is a nice addition too, especially for us Canadians.
I should point out that we will have to sell more than just a couple thousand copies just to break even on the value of the 3D model and textures. You get what you pay for when it comes to that art work. How about the sound developer? Recording good sounds isnt cheap. Then theres the flight modeller, and 2 programmers(including myself) and certain other key staff members. How about all the R&D that has been done on a new cockpit light rendering engine that outshines(pun intended) the one in the PMDG NGX, that you will be getting at No Extra Cost in the upcoming service pack? It took more than a year. There are numerous other additional upgrades being made, not just bug fixes, to improve your experience, all at No Extra Cost. If you want the price to be dropped to 30 bucks then expect the service packs to be 20. FWIW, if i charged Milviz what a typical professional programmer charges this bird would be way more than 50. I am not in this business for money, I do it because its my passion however some recompense is necessary.
Edit...not 2 programmers, 3. The FMS developer. And that FMS is full featured so its not something to be called cheap.
Yes it is.
Yes, agreed, overpriced and overhyped. MilViz makes toys and should have the integrity to be honest about it.
Well, those are all good points. I'm sure that Milviz will iron them out in the coming days or weeks, they always do.
Even with what you have pointed out, it's still miles ahead of a Carenado release (just having manuals INCLUDED with the package puts it a step above).
Wow sink rate, all those words for nothing. Don't buy it, move on. There would have been a few mins of my life I would not have gotten back if I continued to read your words past Boeing FCOM. I would be interested who you really are, but my guess is a PMDG developer. Whatever, it is a great plane,
get over it.
That's great and all but if it doesnt work as advertised...including some fundemental engine start attributes...perhaps "cheap" is what it should be.
I really dislike false advertising and that is what this product is.
The isolation valve is a logic error that slipped in on the last moment when certain other things were being fixed. It wasnt a case of someone being lazy and it is being fixed as we speak.
Naruto,
This sounds like a Lou Betti project all over again; marketed as realistic but when problems are pointed out, all the no extra charge gimmicks promised in the future are thrown out as justifications for glaring errors. Upgrades are great, make the basics work first. BTW, not many of old Lou's bugs were ever fixed, but he did deliver a Config-O-Matic!
I'm not arguing that it costs a lot to develop an add-on aircraft, it does. I'm not a developer and have no intention on becoming a developer, so the ones that do step up to the plate and develop something are very much appreciated. But on the same note, charging $50 for something as inaccurate as this marketed as being 'realistic' is absurd. You have set an expectation by charging $50 and making (empty?) promises on your website about realism and accuracy which do not exist. I didn't make that promise, you (MilViz) did. The textures are good, they're not outstanding. So you're not in it for the money, fine, then it shouldn't matter what you're paid. If you're in it for the love of it, then model it properly - don't half ass it. Maybe you will in a year, maybe you won't ever, that's to be seen. For now, I've requested my refund from Flight 1, and you won't be getting my money until it appears to be fixed properly. Given what I've seen so far, you guys don't have a clue how anything works on this airplane. It's not that complicated. What you need are proper beta testers, and not fan boys you bring on board because they suck up to you. I guarantee you, 95% of what's wrong with this wouldn't have slipped by unnoticed with a proper beta team. They're obvious, glaring errors! Like I said, as it stands, it has the accuracy level and visual appeal of a $29 entertainment title, no more. I offered you GB's of technical and engineering data for this airplane, at no cost, and you declined. What a shame, this could have been great.
I just think people should be aware that this isn't as accurate as it's marketed to be before they shell out $50. Sure, you can get a refund through Flight1, but what happens when it gets to Simmarket etc?? We can't keep playing paid beta tester for stuff that may (will?) never be fixed properly. Fix the systems, fix the flight model, fix the autopilot, maybe you'll have something worth flying. And by the way, the Autobrake doesn't default to MIN, or light up INOP when it's in the OFF position. There isn't even an INOP light, it's "AUTO BRAKE DISARM."
Just did my first flight. Wow, what a great plane! Beautiful flight model and exterior looks awesome. Engine sounds are perfect!Hope we can get some Aloha, United and Southwest repaints.
There is one thing that people complaining about piracy never take into account. Not everyone who avoids paying would buy it otherwise.
The AUTO BRAKE DISARM is only on much more modern variants. The INOP is on the older systems.
I dont mind your pointing out errors (I welcome it in fact even though i was only involved in other areas of development) but the one gripe i have about your comments is the insinuation that we are all talk. The 2 GA birds that we have done in addition to what I did on the F-86F-30 had some bugs on release and in each case every one of the devs worked swiftly to fix every one and the service packs and hotfixes came out in a very short space of time. We dont make empty promises.
A photo by the way. INOP clearly visible. http://aviafilms.com/photos/boeing-737-200-cockpit.jpg
Just on a sidenote, feel free to mail the technical data you offered. jb3dg -d-o-t- 1993 -a-t- g-m-a-i-l - d-o-t - c-o-m
I stand corrected on the Autobrake INOP light - I've never encountered a -200, including Basic's, in my career that had an INOP light instead of an Auto Brake Disarm light. But the issue stands that the conditions for illuminating it is still wrong ;-).
I don't own your other products, and don't want to because they don't interest me. Naturally, as a result, I have no idea how accurate your existing products are or how well they were fixed. Perhaps I'm being unjustly harsh by roping you into the same category as some other FS developers, all of whom who promise realism and deliver trash, but I don't think I am. They all release patch after patch which address trivial stuff like the number of rivets on a skin seam or the color of the toilet seat, but don't fix the core, basic functionality of the airplane. From what I've seen of this product so far, I'm dully unimpressed. I was browsing the MilViz forum, and I see your beta testers and a developer (Bill) arguing with a customer over the Isolation Valve logic and engine start procedure, among other avionics problems, justifying the incorrect way MilViz has implemented them. That does not instill confidence that you know what you're doing, will even fix it, or that you listen to your customers. Surly, based on this, you can understand my skepticism? I'd gladly compile a comprehensive list of what's wrong (minus the AB INOP light ;-)), but seeing first hand how one of your developers and beta testers handle legitimate bug reports, it'd be a waste of time.
If you have issues with Milviz, why do you resort to lowering yourself to this? If you offered your services or expertise to them, then you surely must have their contact details.
If anything, this sort of public shaming attempt on your part does nothing but make you look worse than them!
We all welcome valid criticism here, but what you're doing here in unreasonable and more than unkind.
It would seem the Sink Rate is not looking at what is there, he/she is looking for something that is not there. Seems like a glass half empty person. Rather sad. I hope you find what you are looking for Sink Rate. me, I will continue to not let anyone take away from this great aircraft and continue to enjoy it. Great job Milviz, remember one bad apple will not spoil the barrel.
I'm looking for more than just the pretty visual model. They advertised realistic systems and accurate flight model, and neither of those exist in this package. If you're content with being hosed for only half the glass, that's fine, that's your perrogative. You're clearly after the visuals, I'm after the simulation. They promised both and delivered half of it. It's time we, as a community, stopped being out of pocket beta testers and stood up for what was promised and advertised. More and more of these development groups are promising the world and delivering Uganda, and that's not right. Too many people like you are all to happy to be fan boys and accept the broken package. You're not going to get a medal for sucking up to them and praising them any more than if you bring to light their false claims. And to the developers, if you truly don't have the skills and resources to do the job completely, don't advertise what you can't provide.
If bringing these shortcomings to light makes me the bad guy, so be it. The $50 is completely irrelevant to me, but it may be a small fortune to someone not as well off who's expecting exactly what MilViz advertised. If I can save one person from purchase remorse, then it's been worth it.
Bottom line: If you don't mind paying $50 for a decent visual model, buy it. If you're looking for a 737-200 simulation, pass on it.
If anyone, and I mean anyone, wants to send us docs, info, drawings on any of our products showing something wrong... We are open to receiving them and probably fixing them given our capabilities.
For the 737, we have not, at this point, received anything of the sort nor have we gotten any offers of such things in the past two years.
We are presently working on a Service Pack (as we always do) and will release that as soon as it's done.
That will include several fixes in the overhead panel as well as AP and FMS fixes.
This should happen within the next two weeks.
Thanks for your patience and your support.
Oh, Colin would NEVER say that! Come now Timbo...
Never :)
It's perfectly legitimate to criticize a product, it's our duty as consumers to watch out for everyone else.
However, I think you've written off too much more. It's not just a visual model without a VC. It doesn't just use the sound and air-file from the default 737-800.
I believe some have reacted to your criticism harsher than was needed, but you have also been harsher than was needed in your critique of the product at hand.
Wow, what a response. consensus seems to be good visuals, good FDE, some small glitches to be fixed. Sounds good to me, it would appear that this sim may have a light memory footprint, good for avoiding OOM's. As for "Sinkrate", this is a flight sim, not a systems simulator. I will be purchasing.
I would never say that it's true...
Sadly, he is right on at least several issues. And we are working on them right now.
Expect a patch shortly on those.
As well, I was incorrect. I did indeed receive an email that offered stuff and information. I didn't respond positively because, quite honestly, we get literally hundreds of emails a week offering us "help".
As you might know, we offer a 30 day money back guarantee. Andrew aka Sinkrate (I believe) has asked for and will get a refund. I wish him the best of luck in finding a product that suits him.
I also apologize for my team members having offended anyone and everyone should they have done so.
I thank you for your time.
Colin
Not enuf wing flex. Why is the flight level change and EPR inop?
There is no wing flex worth speaking of on the real thing.
As to why they're inop that's because FSX' default codes don't have those. We're now coding a custom AP that will have those two functions operational.
Thanks for the comments. Just concentrate on releasing a service pack within 30 days. (i.e. The Flight1 refund deadline)
Looking forward to seeing the patched version on the market... As much as I love the NGX, it is also fun firing up some of these older aircraft...
All the best to MilViz in patching up the 200. Sinkrate's tone may be harsh, but I do believe he made a few valid points in general. There is too much fanboyism in this hobby and not enough objective view...
A
Great to hear Colin, am really enjoying the 727-200, and look forward to the upgrades.
i just hope that the edit in the MCP would affect the displays and rotation buttons as i realy like it as it is whit the default as this is 1 of the few where i can use my goflight MCP and happy abut that actualy it´s only FD and Lnav i can control from it and thats ok i like i can rotate the crs spd hfs alt and VS thats so grate and thanks for that!
I think the biggest problem that I and many others have is the false statements of realism in their product description. My purchase was based on this false description…and of course I was disappointed.
Regardless if they patch everything or not, they have already been dishonest and cannot be trusted. “Sink Rate” is right on the money.
I'm confused about the 30 day refund and where to buy...I don't see it listed on Flight 1.
If I buy from milviz direct is there also a 30 day refund offer there too?
Interested to try but with the current mixed reviews I want that return option just in case.
An interesting thought. How about some winglets on that bad boy!
That is also weird that Airdayly x did not mention a single problem during the "first look session"...Is that possible that you guys noticed bugs but remained silent....?? that's something that puzzled me..
Some observations I believe I see.
Who shot out the windows? On all images I see posted here, it looks like there's no glass in the cockpit.
The windshields centre pillar appears too narrow, and misses the typical exposed wiring for the glass heating elements.
The glare shield is incorrect. On the 737 the corners are molded with a downward curve. There are plenty of photos on the net to observe this.
I am a commercial pilot. I have been in the cockpit of the 737-200, therefore I notice these things.
Just even with SP1, this bird is far from reality: the procedures from engine startup until shutdown, nearly everything doesnt match to the real ones. Engine and performance datas are completly wrong, the FMC acts like a missplaced "alien" and it seems that it is not interacting with the airplane (dont even think about RNAV approaches). The manual is a standard-document for 737s and doesnt have anything todo with the aircraft they sell. This is a complete patchwork, more like an early beta beside of a finished product.
All together, a real disappointment, especially on this price level ! A friend of mine has requested a refunding a few weeks ago, but he still not even get an answer.
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