P3D/P3Dv2. Many of you have expressed your different viewpoints here about the imminent release of Prepar3D v2 and your utter disappointment about not being able to use your recently purchased PMDG 777 outside of FSX. Many of you have also voiced your unwillingness to make any future PMDG purchases without them having full Prepar3D support.
Robert Randazzo, aka RSR, has today released an official statement on where his organization stands with regard to Prepar3D support and how the next few weeks will hopefully give us all what we have been wishing for.
Is the glass half full or half empty, is the hangar door half open or half closed? We all wish for nothing more than our PMDG 777 to be able to roll out of our Prepar3D hangar in the very near future...fingers crossed!
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48 comments:
Judging on that response I'd say it's very unlikely we'll see PMDG develop for P3D while LM state they are not developing products with a license for home computer entertainment purposes, I'm pretty sure that type of 'discrepancy' will not sit well with Boeing or PMDG. The ball is therefore in LM's court here to further clarify their license, in it's current state, legally I think it isn't solid enough to just go and do it.
The PMDG statement is pretty clear and sensible, the whiners need to grow up and become adults. Obviously PMDG has contractual obligations with Boeing and I don't blame them for being super careful with the legalities of those obligations. Every body needs to take a deep breath and let things unfold in a natural way.
From the position of someone who never was a PMDG fan boy, albeit a very proud and satisfied customer, I can say that I do indeed understand their concerns and I would have done the same thing in their position. This what brings food on their tables so to say. I support them in any decision they make on this and I will be swayed towards the platform they will choose. The reason being simple. They are exceptionally good at what they do.
In total agreement here. Now that the issue is clear, die-hard PMDG fans will either not use P3D or will have to use both platforms for the foreseeable future to suit their various needs.
I am personally hopeful that some sort of ground can be established for the FS community as it relates to P3D and PMDG. As it shows, with P3D being a training platform and PMDG being the most advanced simulation aircraft developer in the history of FS, the two would make the ideal and perfect marriage.
This will be left to the powers that be. Now that RSR has made his statement, no further complaints or whining about PMDG not being for use in P3D will be fielded or allowed on AirDailyX. I think your feelings were obviously heard and thus properly responded to.
Constructive comments like the ones above are fine.
Thanks for your understanding.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Boeing owned LM now? It would seem odd how they need to converse with 2 of the same company no?
As far as I can see, while it can be used as an educational product, all they need is say from the FAA/CAA/JAA saying also this product cannot be used for training purposes of learning the real deal.
At last something from RSR to stop the seemingly endless barrage of forum posts and company bashing that's plagued PMDG over the past months.
I completely agree with you guys above. It's relieving to know that PMDG are making a genuine effort to find a solution to the various issues and I genuinely hope, whether or not I, myself ever move to P3D that PMDG and LM can come to some agreement since PMDG have seriously proven themselves to be the dogs doo-dahs in the FS world.
I just hope that LM understand that ultimately those of us who flight sim do it to learn, understand and experience the thrill of flight and therefore the community, although small, will help their business grow. P3D isn't a game and to be honest, I don't even see FSX as a game; it's all just legal jargon to keep various parties happy.
So sad but this is the fact....... so the EULA is not the problem is the problem with boeing i dun understand why Ryan is saying entertainment as X . Then why aerosoft is part of it. You dun need say i also know the pmdg is better than aerosoft.
I'll happily correct you. You are wrong.
whats the deal with LM to issue a "enthusiast" license ? I mean what do they have to lose ?? just provide that kind of license and inform the purchaser that they wont be supporting it other than making updates available and such and if they want, they could seek support in a forum or something....
i plan on staying with fsx myself until all the reviews and bugs are smoothed out with p3d v2 and not to mention all my expensive addons can be used on the new platform. i only own one pmdg product and its the 747, i have yet to buy the 777 because of confusion with learning sids and stars, outside of that i would have already purchased the pmdg regardless if it moved to the new platform
The important thing here is PMDG is directly responding to its customers and their requests. I realize we may not like their answer, but I applaud them for addressing the issue. With that being said, I don't blame them for adhering to their contractual obligations with Boeing - only an idiot would try and cheat a multi-billion dollar corporation - especially one as powerful and far reaching as Boeing. A company like that has the kind of power to literally wipe you off the face of the earth (or in their case, blast you off into space, never to return again).
Boeing own Lockheed?!
I'll second that correction.
I respect and admire RSR tremendously, he has brought more innovation and technological advancements to our hobby than any other company in the add-on airplane market.
I hope that they manage to iron things out, I have no doubt that he's painfully aware that his customer base is about to shift away from FSX.
I will see this statement as a change from the previous "no we will not support P3D" into a little bit less stringent "at this time we can not support P3D".
PMDG's tactic is very clear and logic. Get the most out of the existing FSX platform and wait some time until a reasonable amount of customers have switched to a new platform. This could be Xplane or P3d. I would not expect them switch the platform for the next 1-2 years. We can just go on buying the exeptional products and then see what the future might bring us. And I am sure we will like this future.
LM was forced to accept the license agreement by MS. We should all thank LM for working hard to get MS to accept the EULA as written.
And some of the whiners are adults or in there late 20s - 50s. lol
He must be confused with MD. ;)
So RSR says that our opinions don't matter and only PMDG, Boeing, LM and the legal counsel matter. Ok, RSR I hope you read this. The reason YOU have a great company that has grown is because WE, the consumer, buy YOUR product. As soon as people are able to get FS9 performance with FSX quality (or even better) everybody will go there and who will buy YOUR products now? The consumer matters very much RSR because without us you are nothing. I understand there are legal concerns and I hope they get resolved, but to sit there and say we don't matter..well you're really just shooting yourself in the foot.
One thing PMDG and everyone who's trying to protect them (like they need protection, duh) is every Boeing plane is working under P3D. Whatever 'professional' or 'licensed' product PMDG will do, it will not change the fact that it's an addon like any other Boeing planes on the market which is working in P3D, for instance iFLY.
While we haven't heard any copyright-infringement-crusade from Boeing against iFly or CaptainSim or Ariane (which is another 'licensed' stuff working in P3D) I do not belive any word PMDG said about this issue.
No Boeing wont sue them for P3D.
No, Boeing wont sue any addon developer company in this small market.
In fact, if they would sue PMDG for P3D usage, they would've done it already since PMDG's NGX and 747 works pretty well in P3D.
In fact, if PMDG cares their customers from the first place (instead of not considering them as money cow) they would've gone and said 'Look, what you're doing with my addon is not in EULA, you can use it only in FSX, BUT since you paid it, you can also use it P3D, BUT without my support. And if i hear anything about it, i'll ban you from everywhere etc.''
Then i'd be OK.
They have bigger plans about P3D and their addons (which they will go to companies instead of dealing with members with cheap addons, you can sell your lisenced stuff from higher prices, you earn more)
That's it, it's not EULA, it's not P3D, open your eyes.
If I'm not mistaken, PMDG relies heavily on Boeing cooperation and assistance when developing a product - violating the terms of their agreement would no doubt infringe on that symbiotic relationship. For PMDG, this would likely destroy their business - as it's boeings cooperation (and PMDGs magic) that make their add-ons so successful.
PMDG is about to come into som kind of squeeze between Boeing and their customer base which will decrease. It must be hard to see that future money is will move to a platform they can't support, at least for now.
Take of your foil hat!
PMDG works with Boeing, they provide us with the real FCOM for NGX & 777, which is copyright protected! Now tell me which P3D product comes with the real FCOM from the manufacturer?
PMDG don't want to develop for P3D because they are already working on their first X-Plane 10 add-on for more than 10 months. X-Plane 10 is the only viable flight simulation plateform for the future, because it's the only 64 bits simulator available.
PMDG knows they need to get in X-Plane 10 if they want to stay in the flight sim market. X-Plane Developpers like FlightFactor and IXEG are developping PMDG-Like quality add-on for the X-Plane plateform and challenge the best FSX add-on.
What was the difference between fs2004 and fsx? A better engine?
What is the difference between FSX and P3D v2.0?
64 Bit
No more 4 GB Memory Limit (Remember OOM issues)
All cores are utilized instead of one
Direct X 11
And of course a better engine.
Within a year, when developers have really got a handle on things, P3D v2.0 is going to blow anything fsx has to offer out of the sky!
So the question that PMDG should be asking isn't what the lawyers or Boeing think. Rather it should be how they make their company part of the coming changes. Otherwise they are going to left behind.
I agree Frank, a subtle sidestep to appease some very angry customers and perhaps a realisation that LM are here to stay with Prepar3d.
Prepared by Apple's PR company perhaps??? lol
.... the ball is therefore in LM's court to further clarify their licence???? For their product????
I think you will find that it should be PMDG's responsibility to see if they can sell addons to the base product that is provided by LM. The only way they can do that is to change or modify THEIR licence wording to something more than "entertainment only".
Some of the comments here are just ludicrous. PMDG's 737 NGX works just fine in Prepar3D 1.4 and they had to disable the out of the box compatibility for the 777 to not work the same way, so please tell me where there would be any extra development?
X-Plane is a niche market and there is no money to be made there. As it stands Orbx don't make huge amounts of money with all their FSX releases, do you think they or anyone can with X-Plane? The answer is - No!
If PMDG don't follow the money over to Prepar3D v2, they will go bankrupt, simple as that.
p3d is still not 64bit. i would'd blame them i will still fly A330 by aerosoft in p3d 2 and fly T7 in fsx
I don't think PMDG will go bankrupt if they don't go P3D. A lot of people consider PMDG to be the best add-ons and once they release their first product for X-Plane, I think we will see more people in X-Plane. I think PMDG have in theirs hands the choice of the next plateform.
Perhaps the only way PMDG could even remotely release a P3D aircraft is if they changed their EULA - perhaps an Academic one mirroring that of Lockheed Martin's. I imagine their internal legal discussions will explore all options. The statement does sound less like a total no to more of a "we are taking a look".
I would sense that a year or so down the line, sales will determine how hard they work to try and get something in P3D 2.0. Ultimately if every FSX person were to jump ship in the next few months, that would probably force the issue but that is pretty unlikely!
As for X Plane, I'm trying it out and it does have potential. The 777 Worldliner is PMDG esque...but isn't PMDG. The 757 recent release is the same. The lack of OOM's though is amazing and if someone can get some Orbx scenery going then it stands a chance. But for me, as a long time FSX/P3D user it is jarring to have such a raw looking sim right now (think FSX before all the lovely add ons). To have different sim options is great though.
If you can do it you should have FSX with PMDG installed, P3D 2.0 and all Orbx loveliness along with other add-ons and an experimental install of X Plane to see how develops. I will have the latter two but definitely ditching FSX as I just can't get it working how I need it to. No point having a long haul plane if the simulator itself crashes before you can land!
Some of the above statements are rather amusing. PMDG will not go bankrupt or out of business.... As RSR stated
"At the end of the day- all that matters to PMDG is that we live up to our contractual obligations to Boeing- and that we position PMDG to succeed in providing our customers with a valuable product to meet their needs. Whether that customer is an individual at home, a pilot in training, or an airline training department trying to improve training outcomes."
Their products have a scope beyond the home user.
Although it doesn't fully answer questions regarding the MD-11 or JS-41 which Boeing had nothing to do with, it is the most candid answer I have seen from Robert regarding the issue and does lift a cloak off somewhat of what is going on. PMDG has business outside the home simming market and it appears there may be some conflict that other developers don't have to contend with. So be it. I appreciate the clarity. I wish it had been posted sooner, as does he apparently. Now it's said, there is nothing more to say on the matter. They will let us know if and when there is anything more to tell. Case closed for me.
I am not on a boycott of PMDG. I use P3D and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Inability to use their products in P3D by default means; I will no longer be a customer. Simple cause and effect.
If PMDG products become off limits to P3D, I wish them the best of luck in their future endeavors. The ride while it lasted was a blast, and I thank them for sharing their efforts with us.
Everyone will move on. Now lets look forward to the release of V2.0 next week and the excitement it will bring! Hooray for a new flight simulator! We've waited over 6 years for this!
Think about it. We have far more to rejoice about than to be sad for. I can't wait to fly into CYVR with no more OOM's. How about you?
xplane 10 market is pretty much the same. They will lose customer here if they go xplane no one at fsx will go xplane. I spend hundreds on fsx and you asking me to start over at xplane? no way !
I dun think so who want to start over if they at fsx? becuz of one company you guys going to x plane? No way am staying. Beside pmdg have other company instead of fsx. If they partner with boeing they will make million they want business this is business !
My 2 cents, neither FSX, P3D, or PMDG are going anywhere fast. I think just waiting and seeing what happens over time is the best thing to do. So many people in this hobby have a knee-jerk reaction to any and all news. Hopefully everything will work out in a way that sees everyone winning but we won't know until that day arrives. So until then a little patience won't kill. Maybe tomorrow there will be some major announcement that LM has made it so the P3D can be sold for entertainment, maybe that will happen in a month, a year maybe never. But until the companies that actually control these things say anything we honestly don't really know what is going on. Maybe PMDG will be left behind but honestly until that day comes I am going to keep acting like things will carry on as usual. Sorry this post turned out a bit longer then I meant it to but it saddens me to see how quickly and often negatively people in this community that I have literally grown up with react to any form of news even if that news says that the problem or issue or whatever is not resolved and is an ongoing process.
Personally, I don't think the statement was meant to disparage customers. I think it was meant as a frank explanation as to who the company has to consult and secure agreement before finding itself unable to provide in future the very products many of us have come to cherish. As an end user, I doubt very much I’d be called upon to defend the company’s decision in court so taken in the right context it is quite right to say that my opinion carries no weight. I’m waiting to see how the whole thing pans out; and I don’t mean just PMDG. I doubt I’m the only one that hopes to be pleasantly surprised but stands ready to be disappointed.
Oh, oh, will P3D V2 be a technical revolution ? Probably YES !
Will it be the next FS11 ? Of course NOT !
Can I afford to get P3D V2 ? NO ! The price policy is ridiculously confusing and high.
Why ? Because, it 's still a development and NOT a mature product.
Things will still move a lot within the coming months, so please guys, stop having radical opinions about developers' future ...
Hi flynw...Well said! I personally don't feel you have any need to apologise in the least. On the contrary, as often, the length of your comment adds crystal clarity to what you are actually and very precisely saying, it requires no little after-explanations for confusion of what exactly you mean about what you're saying and it shows your obvious maturity in your own thoughts and expression of them in the general discourse within our community.
So, from reading your comment, I can simply say that I completely and correctly understand and whole-heartedly agree with your point. Personally, waiting is the name of the game for me at this point. Even though I am keenly looking forward to P3D v2 being on the market and even if I do most likely opt to purchase P3D v2 at some point, though not on Day 1 without any initial feedback and assessment first, I will still for the immediate future also be keeping FSX on my system, for a few likely obvious reasons. What will allow me to keep learning to simulate flight and not put a stop to my hobby for now is if the majority of our great and talented 3rd party developers continue to provide compatibility with both sims as they largely do now and credit to them for the foresight and sense in that from both developer and consumer aspects. This combination will be my intermediate simulator platform solution for the immediate future for the very reasons you state...this is a dynamic time and an ongoing process (not the start or end of anything) and I'm excited but I also want to maximise my investment and flexibility of use in order to actually keep things interesting enough for me ideally. Using both platforms is a limited and imperfect solution but I need to wait and see where things go before any decision for FSX to actually leave my system. So that won't be happening for some time.
I am also interested to see DAndre's experience of Xplane when he buys it, but, as the majority, I do not wish to start all over again with such huge investments...its not going to be very likely worth it for my needs/desires/cost-benefit. In the end, I'm one who never says never, though its extremely unlikely to say the least.
Lastly, I welcome this new phase in the evolution of flight simulation and I also welcome P3D v2 to the market. There's much to look forward to in time. e.g. when previous Orbx products are made compatible for install or future high quality Boeing and Airbus aircraft are developed by someone with the talent and know-how etc.
So as things stand its an exciting addition and its a dynamic on-going process, not the start or end of anything for me, including it remaining worthwhile for my time spent continuing to simulate flight. 2013 will prove to be one of those significant and great years in the advancement of flight simulation for us for so many reasons and because of so many innovative decisions and products by developers and related-product providers and it sets the ground for a fantastic and potentially refreshing 2014 in FS immersion and usability. A time to be thankful for such a great year and welcome the next year with great anticipation what these fantastic guys can do and would do. Its been a giant leap as years go but a foundation for many great possibilities and advancement. Our story goes on gentlemen. All the best!
I largely agree with you too Thad! Good statement! Though I won't personally be uninstalling FSX at this stage for some reasons, I welcome the arrival of this new addition and I'd join you in celebration of P3D v2 coming to market, advancement of flight simulation and more options for the future and I join you in your mature and sensible attitude in what else you say too. Time is a fantastic thing and nothing is stagnant in our hobby and things always have the potential to change so keeping options open and always watching is the way for me. This isn't a 'screen capture', its a 'video' if you get my meaning.
But this is now the moment to celebrate and welcome this new phase in the evolution of flight simulation and I also welcome P3D v2 to the market. There's much to look forward to in time. e.g. when previous Orbx products are made compatible for install or future high quality Boeing and Airbus aircraft are developed by someone with the talent and know-how etc.
So as things stand its an exciting addition and its a dynamic on-going process, not the start or end of anything for me, including it remaining worthwhile for my time spent continuing to simulate flight. 2013 will prove to be one of those significant and great years in the advancement of flight simulation for us for so many reasons and because of so many innovative decisions and products by developers and related-product providers and it sets the ground for a fantastic and potentially refreshing 2014 in FS immersion and usability. A time to be thankful for such a great year and welcome the next year with great anticipation what these fantastic guys can do and would do. Its been a giant leap as years go but a foundation for many great possibilities and advancement. Our story goes on gentlemen. All the best!
LOOOL... That's your new argument ? Before 'lisenced' aircraft, now FCOM is 'copyrighted' ?
Give it up already
iFly's 737NG for P3D is licensed for entertainment only.
I could not agree more with you more my friend
Guys please note that PMDG doenst only have fsx. They care about their relationship with boeing closely. Why ? idk Maybe they have another income instead of fsx only. Use your brain! A company that is so close to boeing and can make millions! why they even bothered this small aviation community ?
This word "entertainment use" is extremely overrated. If we are all using FSX for entertainment, we would all be using the 'E' key to start the engines and wouldnt give a hoot about sophistication and precision that PMDG so perfectly exemplifies. PRECISION in PMDG says everything about real simulation and nothing about a 'entertainment' game.
I don't know if anyone here is following real-world events but Boeing's management is probably having a case of sour grapes after LM's F-35 JSF stole the South Korean ROKAF contract from Boeing under some very dubious circumstances - right after Boeing's F-15SE won the competitive tender. Since this P3D/PMDG licensing deal isn't big money for either party I would imagine Boeing would say NO if PMDG asked.
You take care my friend. Wish you and all clear skies in 2014! All the best!
Incredible! I remember reading it through one of the users comments, and now it's totally come into light all to clearly... When they went through with the deal from Boeing, they literally " Got in bed with the Devil " and now it's totally biting them in the ass!!!
Good Riddance!!! If they couldn't see this coming a mile away, then the unfortunate demise of PMDG has already been written in stone. The unfortunate part would be that with the platform they have decided to support, FSX is basically USELESS when it comes to long haul flying.... DUH.
I remember years ago, when they announced their stance on FS9. I remember the shock and the back-lash when people first resoponded, but sure enough, the market slowly shifted towards an FSX majority. Seemed like there were only a few of us that solemnly swore to FS9, and now I am more proud then ever.
God Bless you LM... and a big FUCK YOU to PMDG for ever thinking that they (Commie Bastards) could ever dictate whatever FS platform the demographic was sold upon.
I don't care what anyone says, PMDG just BLINKED. They have said in the past that P3D is OUT, I read the statement myself. Now they are looking into P3D, seems to me they are changing their tune and in the right direction I might add.
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